Week 4-6

Literature & Desire

Week 4-6

1.     Cite some variations in the Loathly Lady fabula across the three tales in your Reader. Focus on the conditions by which the lady is either beautiful or ugly, and the actions of the knight/king/"hero".

Throughout the Loathly lady fable tales, I was able to pick out the similarities between them. In Chaucer’s ‘The Wife of Bath’s tale’, the first we hear of the loathly lady is a knight who comes across what he says “no man can imagine an uglier creature”. Progressing further into the story and there is no deeper description on the lady, just that she is ugly, poor and old. In ‘The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle’ there is a lot more description on the loathly lady. However, this time it is no knight who comes across the lady, but in fact King Arthur who says that she is “the ugliest creature, red face, nose running, wide mouth, yellow teeth, broad cheeks as wide as woman’s hip, hair clotted in heaps”, just to name a few. 

In Steeleye Span’s “King Arthur” song, they describe a lady as “Her head hit the roof-tree of the house, her middle you could not span. Each frightened huntsman fled the hall And left the king alone, Her teeth were like the tether stakes, Her nose like club or mell. And nothing less she seemed to be Than a fiend that comes form hell.”. The description of this lady all seems very similar if not the same to the loathly lady in Chaucer’s tale. 

However, in both tales even though she is described to be the uglier creature of the land, she is still able to gain a husband by the end of the story. This is done by manipulation and threatening a persons fate.

2.     The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist.  Why might they believe this?  Do you agree?  Remember to cite evidence from the text or some other source

I believe that this statement is unintentionally true. As these stories originate before a time where the term feminism was even considered, there is no way that Chaucer would have done so purposefully. Feminism emerged in the 1840’s-1850’s (Wikipedia, n.d) supporting my statement. However, in saying that I do see where people may have made some connections and assumptions as to why he may be considered a feminist. 

It is very obvious that in the tales of the loathly lady, the knight is given the task to find the answer to the Queens question “what is it that women most desire?”. If he does not deliver correctly, then his fate may come to an end for committing the crime of rape. Therefore, leaving sovereignty in the Queens' hand, granting her power over the knight. As known the males held most if not all the power in society leaving the women to have little opportunity for independence (Kent, J.L. 2017). As King Arthur allowed the Queen to decide his fate, I think that this may have sparked the feminism thought in peoples minds, along with the agreement that rape is considered deeply wrong. 

In the Wife of Baths Tale, the loathly lady gives her husband the decision to choose between her being young and attractive, but also having the attention of everyone else, or she can remain old and ugly, but be the most honest and pure wife to him. The Knight allows the lady to choose for herself, ultimately giving her the freedom to choose what she desires which in return she says she will be young and beautiful, but also a true wife to her knight. Again not very common for the woman to make decisions within that time period, allowing more equality between the two reasoning in why Chaucer may be considered a feminist.

References:

Kent, J.L. (2017) Women in Medieval Times. Retrieved April 4, 2019. From https://static.nbclearn.com/files/nbcarchives/site/pdf/110965.pdf 

Wikipedia (n.d) Histroy of Feminism. Retrieved April 4, 2019. From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_feminism

Loathly Lady Weeks 4-6 + Comments (unable to comment on reg)

1. Cite some variations in the Loathly Lady fabula across the three tales in your Reader. Focus on the conditions by which the lady is either beautiful or ugly, and the actions of the knight/king/"hero"...

Across the Loathly Lady fabula we see some variation between her portrayal as well as similarities. In The Wife of Bath (Chaucer, 1390) we first hear of the Loathly Lady’s appearance via this line “On the green he saw a woman sitting, there can no man imagine an uglier creature” (Chaucer, p998-999), from that there is a broad perception that she is hideous. Throughout the piece although she is continuously described as ugly there are not many adjectives past that to give one a mental image of her for instance “for though I am ugly, and old, and poor” and “his wife looked so ugly”.
The knight does agree to wed her however after she saves his life, but he makes a point of expressing how little he wants to “Alas! And woe is me. For God’s love choose a new request! Take all my goods and let my body go.” The knight clearly is unhappy with his situation. She the explains her reasoning for appearing aesthetically unappealing “For filth and old age, as I may prosper, Are great guardians of chastity. But nonetheless, since I know your delight, I shall fulfil your worldly appetite” , through this we see her condition was to remain chaste by hiding as an ‘ugly’ woman. Once she is married and convinces her husband to take a risk with her, she becomes a pretty submissive sounding character “and she obeyed him in everything that might to him pleasure or enjoyment”.

In The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle (Hahn, 1995) the Loathly Lady is described in greater detail than in The Wife of Bath as seen here “Her face was red, her nose running, her mouth wide… her hair clotted in a heap”.
There is clear evidence of intertextuality outside of the lore of the Loathly Lady character. For instance the initial impression of the ladies is similar in two of the texts “She was the ugliest creature that a man ever saw” from The Wife of Bath and “There can no man imagine an uglier creature” from The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle. Both state the view of the woman’s beauty specifically through what a man could see or imagine.
We see this similar imagery of the women having large waists, terrible teeth and having hellish presence. In The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle we see this through “Her teeth all yellow”, “like a barrel she was made” and “Even if she was a fiend, even if she were as foul as Beelzebub”. In King Henry the descriptions are reiterated through these lines “her middle you could not span”, “her teeth were like the tether stakes” and “nothing less she seemed to be than a fiend that comes from hell”.

2.  The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist.  Why might they believe this?  Do you agree?  Remember to cite evidence from the text or some other source.

They could believe this because when the knight chose between the loathly ladies options “To have me ugly and old until I die, and be to you a true and humble wife, and never displease you in all my life/ Or else you would have me young and fair, and take your chances of the crowd. That shall be at your house because of me, or in some other place” he let her decide. She offered him loyalty whilst unattractive and old, or to be attractive yet free for whatever promiscuity. By him allowing her the choice over her appearance he grants her back sovereignty in her marriage, showing that she is in a way equal.
I personally do not overly agree that Chaucer intended to create a feminist piece or that his views slid in through this. Rather, as he was copying and parodying an Irish text I would say that he meant to find humour in the idea that the loathly lady ends with some power in the marriage or that the man gave up his decision by allowing her to make it.

3. Hahn's essay (see critical reader) on The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle identifies the motif of the loathly lady, but arguably it has a different purpose than asserting the feminine.  What does he think the function of the story is?

In Hahn’s (1995) essay on The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle he notes that he believes that the stories function is to encourage civility, comradery and to uncover the mysteries around the characters. Within secure confines and that romance served more as a background theme rather than a main one. Through this quote “In this way the romance orders events so that the force of civility and courtesy prevails, and the challenge of the wild is answered within the safe precincts of bedroom and court at the conclusion” we see that Hahn believes the story serves the purpose of creating peace between enemies and strengthens the bonds of their relationships. He states that this is done through Ragnelle as she holds the poem together, each character interacts with her and through that she links them. Through the repetition of these links and problems/solutions that arise she helps to delve into chivalry such as Gawain marrying her to help Arthur or reconciling Gromer and Arthur. Which in turn re-establishes the Round Tables values of mutuality between members.

4. In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets, how can we define "conceits"?
In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets conceits are used to explain attributes of a person or thing without directly describing the original source. For instance by calling someone the sun you are not directly saying that they are a sphere of hot plasma and gas, a star, the gravitational framework of our planet or a generous contributor to life. Although the star comment could certainly also earn one positive points. Instead you’re alluding to their beauty or warmth. Or like in Ice and Fire (Spenser, 1595) where the temperature themed conceits are used to portray the differences between the lack of romantic pairing between two people. Conceits in these eras allow metaphor and encourage readers to search for a deeper meaning within the couplets.

5. Discuss what you think is the most striking or outrageous example.
The most striking and/or outrageous example of this has to be the entire plot of The Flea (Donne, 1633), in which the main character tries to convince the woman of his desire that due to a flea biting both of them; their fluids have intermingled and they may as well consummate as in a way it already has happened. Logic I feel as if I’ve heard, before from the character Barney in How I Met Your Mother (Bays and Thomas, 2005) , who spends season after season trying any and all ploys to con women into copulating.
Not only does the absurdity of it stand out, but lines such as “Thou know’st that this cannot be said, a sinne, nor shame, nor losse of maidenhead” wherein there is an attempt to proclaim that as the flea doesn’t harbour these after taking their blood, nor will she. Which although in this century we have almost moved aside from these definitions of what a sexual encounter would then decrease a woman to or bolster a man; it does not hold up in the context of its time. Had she slept with him before marriage she may end up pregnant, which ends the illusion of her ‘maidenhood’. In a still Christian influenced society she would be sinning and probably shamed, although it can be said that there is a mention of marriage bed and a large amount of the hypothesising conceits that there is an air of both playfulness if not humour, as well as an acknowledgement that traditions would be upheld if they were to continue. Although one could say with a bit of drama/outrage within that Christian era in mentioning “though parents grudge”, which lacks respect.

References:
Bays, C. Thomas, C. (2005) How I Met Your Mother, CBS.
Chaucer, Geoffrey (c.1390). The Wife of Bath.
Donne, J. (1633) The Flea

Hahn, T. (1995) The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle. Sir Gawain: Eleven Romances and Tales. Kalamazoo, Michigan, Medieval Institute Publications.
Spenser, E. (1595) Ice and Fire.
Steeleye Span (1972). King Henry. In Below the Salt. US: Shanachie

Comments:
Te Wai - I agree with what you said about Chaucer not being particularly feminist, just due to it not being a mindset of the time. Although through giving her some choice and considering what women most desire etc there's room for a little bit of female narrative which is quite interesting.